Leeds Rhinos legend, turned Inclusion Director, Jamie Jones-Buchanan and the club’s Head of Customer Experience, Sian Jones, discuss disability inclusion, access, and the community in rugby league, in this episode of The Level Playing Field podcast.
They welcomed guest host Joey Crabtree (Media and Communications Officer at Level Playing Field) to AMT Headingley Rugby Stadium, for a conversation, in which Jones-Buchanan also shared perspectives from his roles within the Rugby Football League.
The podcast episode can be found here, or via your chosen podcast platform and the full transcript is available below.
Joey: Hello and welcome to this episode of the Level Playing Field podcast. I’m the charities communications and, Media Officer Joseph Crabtree, but you can all call me Joey. Today we are very pleased to be at AMT headingly and, joined by a couple of special guests. So, today we’ve got Leeds Rhinoss Head of Customer Experience Sian Jones. Hello, Sian.
Sian: Hi there, Joey.
Joey: It’s not often that we’re joined by a Super League and Challenge cup winner, three-time world champion and England international Jamie Jones-Buchanan, MBE here with us. Hello, Jonesy.
Jamie: Good to see you. Nice to have you.
Joey: I’m filling in for the usual host, Liam Bird, on this episode. So, just have a little bit of an introduction, to yourselves, and what your roles are here at the Rhinos.
Sian: Sian Jones, Head of Customer Experience. I’ve been at the club, well, in a couple of weeks. I’ve been officially at the club for 20 years actually. So, yeah, quite a long time, I would say. my role is basically to look after everything to do with our fans, our customers, our supporters. so that can be a wide spectrum of things that can be anything to do with ticketing and memberships. It can be do with fan travel, the journey, the customer journey, arrival at the stadium, departure from the stadium, what goes on in the stadium, how long have they taken to ceue for a drink, how long have they, you know, been in the shop, you know, all those sorts of elements that go into building that customer experience. So it can be a real wide range. So it’s actually quite difficult to quant find what I do. Bit of everything.
Joey: Sounds like a fair bit on your plate. How about you, Jonesy?
Jamie: Yeah, well, the Leeds Rhinos know or Leeds RL is the golden thread that weighs right through my life, I guess is a fan that was here in the south stand at nine years old. Made a load of friends – supported Leeds Rhinos and I was talk about – well it wasn’t Leeds Rhinos then, it was Leeds RL – Loiners – I was a Loiner and I talk about being inspired, educated and entertained by what I saw. I wanted to be a professional league player. Sim for leeds as a 15 year old way back in 1997 from a local community club called Staningley went on m to play 421 game foot club with a generation of players referred to as a golden generation. So lucky that I just come through with a massive cohort of like talented superstars and then retired in September 2019. I’ve been fulfilled. That boy Dream and I reflected did three years and as an assistant coach and then I couldn’t understand that. I love the people probably more than the physics of the game and when this opportunity to be a aultural diverseity and inclusion come up, I grabbed it both fans and there’s so much for me to learn because I’ve been in this institutional bubble as a player so I didn’t know much about some of the subjects that we have since learned about. But actually in the last two years I’ve been on what I’ve described as a bit of a safari going out into a community, listening to some exceptional employees that I’m fortunate to have side of me like Shan and Suwards ET know robots, Phil Daley who were well travelled and understand the Ledyos community. And I suppose I’ve become a little bit of a voice because I’ve touched a little bit of everything, not got into the detail of anything. I’ve got this helicopter view that I’m able to sort of communicate to other people and through the, the Le Drs foundation whose vision and mission is to change lives through the power of sport. When you put all those constituent parts of the lead drers together, I think we do that exceptionally well. And I suppose my job in this role is to evidence some of that and do some of the storytelling.
Joey: Yeah, I think some of those points you hit on with community. It’ll be interesting to hear from both of you. With both of you having such a background here at the club, I guess away from the Rhinos though you’ve got some roles with the RFL. Jonesy, if you can just tell us about that.
Jamie: Yeah, so I became a board observer about two years ago. That was great. Cause again it was another opportunity for me to see the administration of the game and its totality in its entirety. And I was describe Rug League as been a little bit like a Rubik’s cube. Everybody loves it and they want to fix their side so all the little quadrants line up nicely but by moving yours you might inadvertently move somebody else’s. And it’s about helping everybody to understand. Well actually there’s an algorithm through which we can make it all sound. It’s just we’ve gotta have a bit of trust and coisionion and we’ve gotta have some connectivity. So that was a great way for me to see that. As well as doing a bit of work with the media through sky and small digital media production company called Dram Films created a Lot of content. But then I got offered the opportunity to be chair inclusion board as well, which is relevant to what we’re probably going to talk about today, which again opened my eyes to a multitude of different needs that the game has to acquire to make it as accessible and inclusive as possible. Cause it’s the best game in the world. I’m biassed. I love it to bits. But we want everybody to feel like they can come and enjoy it and even just really quickly myself mix race laad born it wrong time of year, born it wrong place. When you look at all the statistics and the stats say I should never have gone on the journey that I’ve been on. But thanks to the good grace of rugby league people, White shine and all the coaches that have made it accessible and inclusive’ve lived the dream. And so I just want to pay that forward in whatever capacity that I can. And when you’re surrounded by people in that inclusion board who’ve got different lived experiences, keep saying the sh we have a joke. I don’t know what I don’t know. So I invite them, encourage them to share with me what I don’t know. So my eyes are broadened and they had a great saying recently. Lifelong and life wide. It’s gonna be a long life, but I wanna live it as wide as I can and by wide. I don’t just wa want to have some narrow vision that suits me. I wanna have a wide vision where I can see everybody’s needs and wants and do my best to support them. Because on my journey as a player, only through giving team members, giving to each other did we have success.
JOEY: So just on that RFL Inclusion Board, if you can just tell us a little bit about the responsibilities of that and what you’re all trying to achieve through that.
Jamie: Well, just listening, listening to everybody and it’s interesting. We’ve got a meeting coming up soon and we’re gonna talk about 2025 and say, right, what are the most important parts of 2025? If we put all our skills together and we make some positive change, what area do we want to make that change? Is it around ethnicity? Is it around accessibility? Is it about inviting different audiences? Because whilst we talk about it being diverse and inclusive, the optics of it and the stats of it say it’s 94% white. So if we’re gonna follow the likes of the NRL, which is nearly 50, 50 with a, Polynesian Southi island players in there and get this vibrance of culture and eyeballs on the game. If we’re gonna follow that then we need to talk about how we’re gonna invite the audience in. So one example we’ve got the lead rhino’s got an IFTAR event coming up and working with a local South Asian charity called Hamaara and they who some wonderful work in the community in South Leeds. they’re into sport as well, understand the benefits of health and wellbe being and we go, well, how can we get some of your community into the ground? And the first thing we can do is recognise some of their cultural significance around the faith, offer to use this resource and facility which is magnificent by the way. I’mb biassd again caus I’ve grown up here to showcase it and then peripherally secondary to see the game. But I don’t know what I don’t know. So I have to askan Shan how they’re go, going toa get in where the ticket’going to be collected, where they’re going to park and all these little important details that they need to know. I have to work that out with some of the colleagues that are around the ground and make it a great experience for.
Joey: I guess what I would say then is, is throwing that forward as you want. What are your ambitions as a governing body? And I’d say to both of you for the club, in terms of creating that inclusivity for disabled fans.
Jamie: We had a chat yesterday Sian, didn’t we? If we had an infinite amount of money or influence for three days, how would you spend it? How would you use it?
Sian: Yeah, and I think what we said though didn’t. We said it was specifically surrounding accessibility. So I’m obviously going to look very, you know, very directionally towards our plan. So we’ve created this, I guess for what of a better term is a strategy, it’s an action plan more than anything, which is based upon ah, feedback over time, you know, results from audits, discussions, conversations about what we deem our short, medium and long term sort of priorities are. And obviously the long term ones are where we were discussing. Right, well that’s wor I need to think about where I’d spend the good money and I look at where, you know, our shortcomings are as a club. Our shortcomings are, you know, we don’t have a great deal of parking and that to us can be a massive barrier for people wanting to attend the game who have accessibility requirements. So you know, we’d build a multi story car park. Of course it would. That would be One of your little wishes, I think we said over three days, didn’t we? So it was a bit like the junior with the three wishes, wasn’t it? It’s like over three days. So multi story car park was one. a shortcoming that we do have and he’s very recognised and I’m sure if there’s anybody listening who is from, opposition away support. Ah, a WA of league clubs, they will turn to the fact that we don’t have an accessible area in the. What we perceive as the away stance. So in our way, Western Terrace, which is a standing terrace, didn’t have an accessible area. So we feel that that is. I would pay to. Well, I think they’d want to hear that. I pay to get a roof on it as well. So we’ll try and go with that one as well. But equally to create some area where we can have some wheelchair spaces down there. The supporters can all be together again to be included to all be together. and then I think we had. There was a particular third one. and it’s gone out of my mindset for a minute, so I might have to pass on to Jorey and it’ll work back tomorrow. You might remember it.
Jamie: Well, some of the bits that I’m always asking a question about is, for example shon work with ah, our fans and they have different experiences when they go to away games. when they do Magic weekend, for example, go to nationals and I guess it’s coming to Wedding Lane and going. How do we compare what we’re doing here with some of the other events? And then are things that they’re doing better that we can replicate and improve in our own resource or the things we can share that. That best practise and educate others. Listen, Lily, he’s not the most affluent game. We’re not shy talking about that. And some of our grounds and stadium need upgrading. I think we’re really fortunate amt headingly that we’ve got a, wonderful example, but it’s not perfect now as far as, Well, nothing’s perfect, by the way, but as far as the RFL goes, we’ve got the Tackling Action Plan which talks a lot about not just accessibility but inclusion and diversity and not at the Les Rhinos. I’m really proud and I love talking about the fact that when I got here just ame men’team that played once a fortnight thans to the. The vision of WA to Gary Everton and Ali Drano foundation, we’ve got a women’s team. We’ve got a wheelchair building team, we’ve got a learning disability team, we’ve got a netball team. We’ve got a room just through there that invites all kinds of physical disabilityical dis, the dementia, Alzheimer’s, all kinds of provision that we use. We’ve got a netball team and obviously the running club as well. So the running club meeting the Southdown concourse on Wednesday. My wife does that and so do a lot of the Lear disability and again you get this mosaic of lived experience that you hear about some of the challenges that they faces and you go you know what? We need to do something about that. And then we reset feeding and try and make a difference.
Joey: Well I think a lot of people would be enthused just to know that on a casual Monday afternoon you’re having discussions about what your dreams for accessibility would be about. So that’s good to hear but I guess you’re saying you’ve got some of those things and some of those ambitions in place here at Headingley. Ye but then when you are looking to the wider game and you’ve got those programmes in place what kind of things are you looking at to put it as a priority on the agenda and have those discussions happening at clubs across.
Jamie: Yeah, so it’s interesting. You’ve got to get a buy in for everybody. I can’t control rugby league. It’s not my business. I’m a volunteer even at the RFL board I don’t get paid for it. So I’m just going there to educate myself. I you my own ethnicity that I stood in front of a room and tried to articulate this point that the game’s accessible. My colour of my skin has never been a barrier by the way ever. I’ve never experienced any racism in my journey. Maybe just once falls in 21 games and it was fairly frivolous but I’m stood in front of a room full of people I’LOVE me I’m really friendly with. Yeah it’s all. They’re all white people. I’m comfortable with that because I’ve grown up with white people. My wife’s white and the one’right some people are comfortable. So you’ve got to say how do we change that and invite those others in who were maybe part of my heritage and we met a few last year didn with the black young professionals and patients and you since then invited them to grounds. We’ve had inclusion game where we bring them in and I guess in terms of the rfl, the bigger picture, we just have that shared practise, got the Tackle Action plan now that we’re all working from in terms of what some of the metrics are that we need to address. But then it’s up to everybody to feed in around that inclusion board to say, well, this is expertise that I can bring, this is the part that I can play and start to shift the dial.
Sian: I think it’s a fair point that you make there though as well, because we have a really understanding and I’m not just so this point because obviously I am sat next to one of our directors, but all of our directors and right up to the chairman all buy into this concept of ensuring that we are as accessible and as inclusive as we can be. The fact that we’ve got a director who is. That is the representation title, but we are all a part of it. And I think you’re just leading on from where, talking about, the RFL and the RFL board. A piece of information we was told on Saturday, quite openly from the Diversity and Inclusion Manager, Ben Abersin at the RFL was telling us that all the chief executives have been invited to attend the RFL Council Board. I think that’s the right typle at the meeting and they’ve all been brought in together so that they can present to that about understanding, tackle it plan, buying into it and ensuring that they are all taking that back and making it high upon their agendas. So I think that is where you were saying that as long as everybody is understanding it and educated by it, then that’s when you start to believe in it a little bit more.
Joey: If we talk about that progression in the general game, then I think Jonesy is very much saying he’s proud of some of the transformation you’ve had here AMT Headingly. So if you don’t mind explaining, Sian, just about some of the changes you’ve seen since you came here just showed 20 years ago.
Sian: Absolutely. Oh, about the years there. yeah. So I mean I obviously came in when I officially started my role as head of customer experience. It’s probably about 2009 and it was before that I was in the ticket office, managing and overse all the ticket office operations for systems and such like, And you learn a lot from what you say is like ground level, your customer facing. You’re talking to people all the time, you learn about people. You spend a lot of time getting to know all these different customers and ##ning all the different personalities and the different types of people that, you know that we’ve got support in the Rhinos. And obviously over time when we’ve never been. Well, there’s obviouslynna be times when you’re not perfect. Well, you’re not perfect all the time. But we do our best, we strive to be as perfect as we can be. But they’re quite. In my early stages of managing the ticket office, you would get quite a few complaints, negative feedback, however you want to frame it, it wasn’t great. So it was spending some time with those people and eventually I sort of worked out that instead of trying to sort, of go back and forth on emails and things like that, well, I’ll just pick the phone up and I’ll bring you instead. Or I’ll get you. Come, why don’t you come and sit with me and have a coffee. Let’s all sit together and chat about what’s going on. Tell me what’s going on. Tell me what your issues that you’re facing and so that I can learn a little bit more because I don’t live it. So it’s very difficult for me to sit there and tell somebody, well, this is what you want. No, no, you can’t tell somebody what they want. They need to tell you. So, you know. Well, what do you mean that. That’s not okay? I think that looks okay. Yeah, it might look okay. It’s not practical, it’s not functional. So spend a bit of time, sit down, we have a coffee, we’re on the phone, we’re doing whatever. And then eventually we started to build it where we brought people in and had a bit more of a meeting. I’m not gonna likeie and remember the first one I ever had. in one of our, in one of our stands is a cafe bar downstairs. And I can remember being at the front of this space talking to these people and I’d got nothing but a batterroom for about half an hour and I thought, oh, gosh, I don’t know if I can face this. Like I thought, oh, we’ve got this totally wrong, totally wrong. And then actually you got to the end and they all went, we really enjoyed that. Thanks. How sing you? You got a full bay. Like you’ve all just completely taken me apart. Ultimately was because we’d spent a bit of time talking to them, we’d listen to what the issues were and we said, right, well, we’ll go away and address them or we’ll figure it out. And we might not fix it, but we’ll have a go. And that was basically where it was at. So that kind of evolved over time. And then Covid obviously came. so we used to do these every other year from back 2009. Pretty much every year we try our best. And then Covid came and we didn’t do one. And then we brought one back in last year and then we had one on Saturday so just the annual catch up. and then obviously we brought in an accessibility liaison Officer again previously a role that was in situ. but over time there was not really a level of consistency in there and it was nothing to do with that role. But the person that kept taking it on seemed to keep leaving after a couple of years. So you just get into a good place and then mid leave. So we’ve got a level of consistency. Ashley Marshall who works in my team has taking that role on.
Joey: It’s no coincidence that we’re here today. so just if you could fill people in in terms of a little bit about your previous interaction with level Playing field.
Sian: First started working together with level playing field. I think it did derive from the rugby league and the audits, the audits of the stadiums obviously audit against the accessible stadium guide. and that was kind of. We had up a very big audit and this was probably. This will have been before the redevelopment. and then we got involved again. we invited Nikki come along for a visit.
Joey: Yeah, so that’s Nicky Baker who’s a Wigan fan. So, she will have given you an honest verdict.
Sian: She did give an honest verdict. That’s absolutely correct. She did. And, but she came, we brought her along to the stadium. Cause we again we value the opinion and the understanding. We’d rather somebody tell us. So we said to Nikki, come along. and when we redevelop the stadium, and just have a little look round and you know it was really, really beneficial, really helpful. And at the time like our visitor’guide was on the, you know, disabled visitor’guide was on the website, you know and we had a good chat about it and she offer to look through it and review it and help us to write it a little bit better, which she did and it was brilliant. A really big support to us. and just really get that concept back into our mind of ah, like we need to ensure that we’re doing everything that we possibly can for make most inclusive stadium that, that we can be for a matchdayian. See Jonesey touched upon the other areas, that the foundation are a part of and we all obviously work together and that’s allowed us to work together a bit more. One team, Team Rhinos, getting us all to understand and work together. So then we followed that up and Level Playing Field came down again with Niki, and Elain Davis and, Jones, you joined us and we did a stadium tour and we had Ed Bates, who’s our disability, activities officer, the leader Rhinos foundation, Ben Berry, who oversees a lot of the programmes as well from our foundation and the operation manager. Everybody in. Right, let’s all talk and learn a little bit more. And that was great because then that’s really revived our relationship with Level Playing Field. And hopefully you feel the same way that we’re all singing off a similar hymn. M Shoot, I would like to think.
Joey: Absolutely that’s the plan. I guess, that leads us in nicely with you saying that initial interaction came about through the governing body and then it’s really been about how you’ve driven that forwards as a club and taken up that mantle to prioritise access. So where should the key driver, for accessibility come from? Should it be governing bodies, should it be clubs realising themselves? Or does there need to be something beyond from government at a national or local level?
Jamie: I think context is. Came with some things I learned, from an ESG point of view Segway a little bit that, okr, for example 60% of their fans walked at ground. And we’ve just been in a meeting earlier and Sue’s talking about Scope three, so those EM missions that a caus through people travelling to Edly and we know that some of our fans travel from a bit further and wider. So contextually it’very different. So you can’t always copy and paste pick up something from one place to another. for me it’s always about starting with what you can control. I think Shan’s talked a lot about listening. People want to be listened and when they re listen to feel included and a part of it. And then if we’re all working together and saying listen, what can I do to make your experience more enjoyable and be a part of our tribe, our, communityuse that’s what every human being in my. In my experience it last two years. The big message that I keep understanding is we’ve all got a gift to give and if you can find a place to give it, then you have a life fulfilled and that’s feeling included. So in any place where you feel unincludd and that Word imposter syndrome quite a bit. They’re those moments where you feel like you don’t belong and they’re terrible for anybody. So I guess contextually you go, how can we help you to feel like you belong in this particular environment? And then again we can say, this is what we’re doing here at Le Drynos. Perhaps you wantn replicate that OC or Wiggin, what are you doing? And I’ll come me somewhere in the middle or all learn from both sides.
Joey: Do you think clubs can be left to do that themselves or do you think there needs to be an external pressure in some cases to do that?
Sian: I do think there needs to be some sort of, you know. And we were saying this before, a bit of like, a bit of a trickle effect, isn’t it? That I feel like if, you know, when we were re saying before, if the chief execs are coming in together to get that understanding, it’s to understand that that is an element on an agenda. They’re not, you know, at a club level, you know, if I said it without any influence from anywhere else, it would be considered an important thing. Not just because it’s me, but it’d be considered important because it is. but not everywhere is the same as that. You know, smaller resources, smaller workforces. It’s sometimes very much, you know, they could be juggling, spinning templates, and sometimes those plates do fall off the stand and like the accessibility is further down the list of priorities because you. That stands about to fold also. You know, so many. I know I go to extremes, but, you know, so that is sometimes the case, isn’t it? And I’m sure it’s the same probably in rugby league. There’s probably the same in rugby union. Some football clubs will probably be in the same situation where you’ve got one person that might have bought 15 jobs. And it’s all relative, isn’t it? So I do think that there has to be an understanding from your chief execs and everyone like that that it has to form part of your agenda. It does have to form part of your agenda. And then that helps support other people, doesn’t it? Because, you know, maybe they’re not as. Maybe they haven’t got as loud a voice like myself, or Jamie or other people like that in our business where we’re going. No, I’m doing that because that needs to happen. Whether you think it’s right or not.
Jamie: I think accreditation from people outside the game as well is really important. You know, When I think about level playing field and your role, you’re an objective voice, just a real quick segue. I met some academics from Pretoria University and I was talking about the different domains that I existed on a day to day basis. People seem to speak a different language. I’ve got new age genders and what different things out of life and they’re all philanthropic and want to make a difference but because they all work at different speeds and speak a different language, it’s to find it really difficult to get on. And he said to me, listen, I’m a doctor and in my community if I ask everybody to wash their ras, he says about a third of them will listen. But if I ask the local priest to tell them washher arounds, everybody listen. Cause in his community, in his environment, they’re quite spiritually minded. So it says whether or not to wash your hands isn’t in dispute. It’s the right answer. But who says what, where, when, in what context makes a massive difference. So even if me and Shan, Shan’s got 20 years experience of doing his job, so he’s absolutely authentic and valid in saying what he’s saying. But sometimes it might need somebody like yourself to go, listen, we’ve got an objective, unbiased view and opinion about the way this stadium set up and that accreditation then gives you the kite mark, the rubber stamp that says this is great and I guess then we wanna chase that because we need that objective thumbs up. So you, you play a massive part and the governning body does as well. But ro the league, it’s it’s, it’s very u, can be paroculous. It’s a bit like wild west. So basically we all fight in local salud, knock it a out of each other. But when enemy comes from overillls then we all get together, you know, through adversity and we look after each other. So yeah, you play me part.
Joey: You’ve mentioned the different aspects of EDI a fair bit. and so I would just ask where does accessibility sit within that?
Jamie: Yeah, you know what, it’s a great question. I think somebody put in, well let, let’s go even broader. I’m gonn put ESG together like these are really important things that we need to discuss in this generation. But it’s almost like they did it and lumped it like mmr, like Mel Monn and Rubella. Like we can solve a ah, one big problem with one shot. But when you’re talking about solar panels or electric law modes in one conversation then you talk about neurod diversity another and then the governance who might not quite understand that yet. I’m quite caught up need to invite different people and who’ve never been in that domain before to make them decisions. Like everybody’s heads fall off and you get world leaders who are just being elected by the way saying it’s a load of nonsense. Right or it’s like we’re in a bit of a minefield here. I absolutely believe in my heart Art that my role is pivotal. When you talk about ADI and it’not it’s not about saying we need an equal amount of A, B and C, X, Y and Z and tick a box and it all looks really nice. It’s because you need to understand and hear the background experiences of this mosaic of individuals because if you don’t quote Shar to flip it back on Shine and you don’t ever know what you don’t know, you will never ever know. And so it, so it’s so fruity and advantageous right to invite different people from different domains in so we can all be educated sometimes that might hur as well by the way because nobody likes truth. Nobody likes truthus. It can, it can be pretty cutting but when you get comfortable with being uncomfortable you can assimilate information that you might not otherwise know that it makes you a more broader, wider minded individual. So that’s why I think EDI is important.
Joey: Like you say, sometimes it’s raw, sometimes it’s going to hurt but sometimes it’s what you need to hear. You had an accessibility meeting this weekend where you had fans down to talk about some of the barriers they’re facing and their match dayss more generally. how did that go?
Sian: Yeah, no it was brilliant. there’s about forty people that came along. it was a general invite firstly to our members who were on the system who have either got ah, a wheelchair accessible space or registered as having a disability. Again helpful for us to understand our fan base a little bit more. especially more so with the you know, as the hidden disabilities. It’s pretty important for us to try and get a bit of an idea of you know who we need to support probably that little bit more. so about 40 people came along. we had representation from the club obviously from operations manager, the safety officer because as we all know the safety officer leads into the steward in the security and we do always know that that is a, can be ah, probably a bit of a bit of A frustration for all sporting clubs. Match dayss generally, you know, whenever it’s kind of dealing withio with insecurity. So, we’ve also got a disability liaison officer who actually works for, Our Steward Insur Company G4S on a match day. So she goes around and gets to know everyone. She’s kind of the front facing on a match day. Ashley is on non match day and then he’ll come out into the arena and see people as and when. so again, just making sure that there’s people in that space, that it’s not all just, you know, they understand that it’s taken seriously. I think that that is what it is, is we’re listening to you, but we’ve got the people here that are also listening. So if you’re thinking that we’re just going to walk away with a set of notes and just go and check it in the bin and see you later, well, we’re not because there’s people here listening as well. and we also had, Ed Bates, who were referred to you before. Again, really important back to the one team, Team Rhinos. You know, he’s doing this fantastic workout out in the community, doing all these various programmes, funded programmes through these rness foundation. And we are again trying to make sure that it’s not just stem to match day, that we’re trying to offer the best experience at the stadium generally. So trying to understand those things. And it’s good for Ed to understand what we’re doing as well. So he was there and he obviously had some chats with some people. Cause we’ve got people there that don’t probably know anything about our other programmes as well. So, I know that Ed’d had some really nice conversations and we might have recruited a few more people for different things, you know, whether it’s the learning disability team or one of the other groups, that we offer support for. So, yeah, they were just. It was a great, nice little afternoon, like coffee and biscuits and everyone having a chat and, you know, we did a bit of a general summary and a bit of feedback and then we broke out into some smaller groups. Again, back to people’s anxieties and just ensuring that people have got a little bit more of a space to open up. you don’t really want to open up in for 40 people, but you might be okay with five or six. I got a little bit of feedback from them, so hopefully we’ll going to summarise all that and send that round to the People who attended but also make a little bit of a thing on the website so that everybody can see it. Cause not everybody could attend or people might not have wanted to come. So we did do a general invite and then we’ll feedback to in there.
Joey: So yeah, yeah, I think that’s crucial. It’s listening to fans but it’s also letting them know that you’ve heard that and you’re actually it. Ah, I guess we’ve spoken about a few different ways then that will influence your decision making. Jonesy, you mentioned that the data side of things – knowing how many fans will walk up at Hull KR and you’ve got individual dates like that. We’ve got our Level Playing Field Annual Fan Survey to inform clubs. Then you’ve got the expert advice that can come through an audit or that can come from speaking to a specific charity on certain facilities. And then you’ve got that fan consultation. So how do you balance those things in your decision making and your plans going forward for the next year?
Sian: I think it’s about like, it’s about who champions it really, isn’t it? It’s the responsibility of everybody at the club but who champions it and making sure you do it all together. And it’s actually something that we, we’re all working towards. So obviously I referred to earlier about our action plan. Basically call it strateg, you call it with many fancy terms as you want. It’s an action plan isn’t it? That is all based off all these variations of feedback that come in. You put it into one place and that helps you decide what you can achieve in these short, medium, long term. And we have to look at that versus you know, do we have the resource to be able to do it, do it for finances to be able to do it. What’s the impact if we don do it? You know. So it’s almost like an impact versus, you know, like impact versus resource versus costs. When you go down each one of those and that’s how you put them into each of the little boxes. Now some of the things should be super top high on the agenda but they’re gonna cost a complete fortune. You know there was one that came up on Saturday was in fact that was the third one and I knew I’d remember it eventually was ah, set the handra y. We have in our south stand seated area. We’ve got stairwells coming from the top and people have said we really need to get some handrails. the cost of Installing handrails is a bit of a barrier for us because it’s quite expensive. but it is something that we need to do. So it’s on the list and it will get done. But at the moment it’s probably not something that we can achieve. We can’t achieve that by the start of the evening in two weeks time. But it’s a job that’s probably agenda for the next two or three years that we do need to get that done. But in the meantime as long as we provide a provision that anybody that is struggling to walk down the stairs or anything like that without some sort of assistance or support that they can come to the US and we can say right, we need to make an alternative provision for you, get you nearer some seats veas you’re nearer a lift or put you into a different stand and such light. So it’s kind of just going down that plan and as long as everything is in one pot instead of right, well I’m over there doing this and you’re over there doing this and somewhere in the middle we will ll all meet in the middle and something will come together that’s kind of feed everything in and then keep going through the assessments and consulting. So I consult, I’ve got a supporters board, a couple of supporters board members who all are brilliant, brilliant listening is and really good consultants. And they’ll tell me str ITT so and equally constution level playing field. Please tell me how this is. Please tell me if there’s if this is right or wrong or how do I go this or how do I manage this situation. I think it is fair.
Joey: I mean, I think naturally we will always champion getting facilities spot on and making sure they’re as accessible as possible. But we understand that so much of a match they experience can be enhanced through the changing of your services, the change in how stewards interact with fans and just that planning ahead and making a reasonable adjustment to improve someone’s matchday can be just as big. Ultimately, it’s all about relationships though. And Jonesy, I’d go to kind of what are your relationship’s like with fans, both as a player and now?
Jamie: I guess – this is a great question and I think it’s probably one of my biggest strengths, because I love people fascinated by human beings and the diversity of them know and when I say diversity I’m just talking about personalities. And now everybody sees the world. Cause we see the world as we are, not as it is. So you asked the question where are you from what’s your origin story, what’s your background, what you doing here? And everybody will tell you a different one. and because I’ve grown up here from being nine years older, being a player, being a coach, done quite a lot in the media, I get to occupy a lot of different environments. and trying to I suppose connect and bring that mosaic of opinion and foresight together. So when I’m listening to Sharan there and there’s so much going on and you know we’ve not got an abundance of boots on the ground so I think more than most o I’ve never worked anywhere else but I imagine most other places have potentially got more people doing more, more jobs. less jobs should I say. But ul no it comes out of trust as well. They know like trusting the people that you working that they’re going to do a great job. They’ve got so much experience and to understand their little environment and trusting them to get on with it and then when they needed arises ask how can I help you? How can I support? And because you know to answer question I go around and speak and cross pollinate with so many different people. I hear things, I see things and just try and feed that back in so ah, that everybody has hopefully got a bit more of a bit more wisdom to make informed decisions. I love people for me like I said earlier, I love the people more than I loved the mechanics of the game of Ro Blake One of the.
Sian: Best is is when you do have such type of events, if you bring Jonesy it’s great, because they’ve watched you as a player and because they’ve like spent all those years like you know like cheering them on going to the you know, seeing you as a different guy there is that like level of like you know, starstruck. But equally they are actually very truthful in what they say. So they might tell you some bit more truths. Then they might tell me who they look and sort of go. I go back to that like ooh, she’s from the club. She’s like. But I’ll tell Jonesey because I used to tell Jonesey that he needed to run faster or tackle that person or SW from the terrace. So then when it’s me as like o oh it’s a bit too serious over but just tell Jondy instead. So you’almost like stand in the background like taking those notes. Thank you. That was perfect.
Joey: People will feel like they’ve known a player that they’ve watched for years like that. And so can have those conversations watching you over the years, those Super League wins and so many of those coming alongside Robborough, as you mentioned. And you of course have that shared testimonial in that as well, which, I think you’ve described before as one of the greatest moments in your career. We talk about legacy with Ro and we think about what he meant to the MND community, that representation he, fittingly for some, many disabled fans, but also to use an individual, you would talk about learning from personal experiences during that time. How much did you learn from Rob?
Jamie: I still learning from Rob. every single day I reflect on the journey. I see pictures of him and I hear interviews. And I guess for me it’s just reaffirming some of the messaging that I’m talking about there. And I think when Rob passed, there was obviously a number of events that I spoke at and I just, I broke it down into seven different lessons that I learned from Rob’s life and legacy. And it ultimately comes down to what I was talking about then. It’s this love, the gap, this unconditional love and desire to want to look after your teammates. And what does that look like? Were chatting about earlier some of the values that you’ve got within your organisation. And we’re not perfect, we sometimes get it wrong, but it’s good to highlight it and celebrate those values when you see them manifest through good intent so that everybody can see it. And I keep talking about love being a verb lo this, deep, deep comradeship that was. Is. Is in the doing. It’s not the emotion people think loves an emotion and it is, but that’s in the fruit. The doing is always for me at the root and then that gets reciprocated. I’ll give you one example next year, I hope. Well, this year I hope Joel Moon comes back. Really like Joaw Moon, right? I’ve said I’ve, had more dialogue with you today, right. And it’s first time we’ve met than I had with Joel Moon in three or four years he was here, right? He never said a word Joel, but I used to defend side of him and I’d maybe get up to 30, 40 tackles in the game and he’d just go, jones, hous. Stand here and he’d go in and he’d tackle three or four people in a set and he’d upend him. He was one of the best defenders I’ve ever seen. Just so that I could have a rest. See, he could see that I was tired. Never said then we’d swat back. So then when you got Jones here, I need you run into that bl wall here and play ball as fast as you can, man. I wanted to run as hard as I could to thank him for giving to me. And that happens 12 fold. So if you give to your team, you’ll get that back 12 fold. And that is a rising powerful Tidemate. So if you can do that in a management group, a governance group and any sort of. No, we’re talking. We’ve got a big event tomorrow night. If we can get all the different constituent parts of the club in that mindset, there’s not that you can’t achieve or overcome. That was another one of Kev’s big quotes in the one use today. I’ve burnt this out but I’ve been telling everybody in all the domains I’ve been existing in that there’s about 4,4 million different parts in average aeroplane and not one of them can fly. But you put them all together and you all play the part and you need a glue, a moral glue to stick them together. Then there’s not telling where an aeroplane can go. And I think that’s the secret behind a success in any department or further company.
Joey: Well Jonesy, I think you’ve got us all ready to run through a brick wall.
Jamie: Let’s go.
Joey: Anyway, so, yeah, I’d just say is there anything either of you still want to add – it’s been great to have you.
Jamie: I’d just like to – gratitudes a big one for me. I’s like to thank you for coming. It’s been great to welcome you. I think it’s great for me and Sian – certainly Sian – I needed Sian here for the expertise. But it’s great that you’re helping us tell that story and again it’s not about boasting or shouting. We’ve got so much to learn as Sian says, but we don’t know what we don’t know and we’ll keep working hard to make a difference and invite people the ground. So I appreciate your time and for coming along.
Sian: I completely echo that like, like we said, the support that we’ve had from Level Playing Field is so it’s like second to none for us because like we say we don’t know everything. We need that support and we need that guidance and we want to be able to hold our hands up and say we need that help because it just makes us a better place, the better club.
Joey: It’s been our pleasure to come down and thank you to everyone for listening to the Level Playing Field Podcast. Don’t worry, Liam will be back next time. But for now, if you’re going into a game this weekend, make sure you enjoy it and make sure you tell us how it goes.